Lyndon B. Johnson and Clarence M. Mitchell Jr. on 15 February 1967

Transcript

Edited by Kent B. Germany, with Kieran K. Matthews and Marc J. Selverstone

On 15 February, President Johnson was to issue a major message as part of his efforts to pass a civil rights bill, the most notable parts of which involved provisions to reduce discrimination in housing. Similar legislation had made it through the House in 1966 but had failed to reach a vote in the Senate. On 12 February, in preparation for sending the legislation up to Congress, Johnson had given a speech at the Lincoln Memorial and then hosted NAACP president Roy O. Wilkins and other civil rights leaders in a White House meeting.

The day before this call with Clarence M. Mitchell Jr., the NAACP’s top Washington lobbyist, Johnson had spoken with Wilkins because Carl T. Rowan, the former Johnson-appointed USIA director who was now a columnist and who had been briefed on the civil rights message by a White House aide, had published parts of the message in violation of an embargo the White House had put on the material. [note 1] See Conversation WH6702-03-11542. In the call with Mitchell, Johnson continued to express his irritation with Rowan and the strategic problems his story caused. They also discussed the fallout from not including labor attorney Joseph L. “Joe” Rauh Jr. in the civil rights meeting and the powerful role that Senate Minority Leader Everett M. Dirksen [R–Illinois] had played in killing the 1966 civil rights bill, particuarly after the reaction in Illinois to protests led by Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. that summer. [note 2] “Special Message to the Congress on Equal Justice,” 15 February 1967, Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: Lyndon B. Johnson, 1967(Washington, DC: GPO, 1968), doc. 55; “Statement by the President on the Message on Equal Justice,” 15 February 1967, Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: Lyndon B. Johnson, 1967(Washington, DC: GPO, 1968), doc. 56.

The civil rights legislation did not pass in 1967, but a version of it did make its way to the President’s desk on 11 April 1968 in the immediate aftermath of the King assassination. [note 3] “Remarks Upon Signing the Civil Rights Act,” 11 April 1968, Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: Lyndon B. Johnson, 1968 (Washington, DC: GPO, 1969), doc. 195.

Recording starts after conversation has begun.

President Johnson
—missed you, I tried to get you last night, but you—
Clarence M. Mitchell Jr.
Oh, that’s so nice of you. Mr. President, I’ll tell you what my problem was. You know, the Klu Klux Klan Grand Dragon is suing my wife and her mother for $200,000. And a hearing on the case comes up on Friday, so we’ve been out working on it.
President Johnson
Oh. Well, that’s . . . I . . . our friend Carl [T.] Rowan broke that story on us and got us in rather serious trouble. [note 4] Carl T. Rowan was U.S. deputy assistant secretary of state in 1961; a delegate to the United Nations in 1962; U.S. ambassador to Finland in 1963; and director of the United States Information Agency from 1964 to 1965.
Mitchell
I was disappointed in Carl for doing that.
President Johnson
It’ll hurt us. It’ll hurt us a great deal because we’ve got all the problems we can bear with [Adam Clayton] Powell [Jr.] [D–New York] and others. [note 5] Adam Clayton Powell Jr. was a U.S. representative [D–New York] from January 1945 to January 1967 and January 1969 to January 1971, and chair of the House Education and Labor Committee from 1961 to 1966. The House was investigating him on charges of corruption. On 1 March 1967, it voted to prevent Powell, minister of the Abbyssinian Baptist Church in Harlem and powerful chair of the House Committee on Education and Labor, from taking his seat. Martin Gansberg, “Negroes Call Off Parley on Powell,” New York Times, 13 February 1967; Joseph Loftus, “House Excludes Powell, 307–116,” New York Times, 2 March 1967. And every press man [is] just mad as a hornet. And what [Clifford L.]  Cliff Alexander [Jr.] did was go over with Carl the basis of it, just kind of like we went over with y’all. [note 6] Clifford L. “Cliff” Alexander Jr. was deputy special counsel to President Johnson; a key planner of the White House Conference on Civil Rights; and chair of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission from August 1967 to May 1969. And Carl said that he wouldn’t write it, except after it went to the Congress. Because anything the Congress gets mad about, it’s somebody telling somebody else something before they tell them. It’s kind of an insult to a president to have a message . . . even in the paper before it goes. And our group handled it all right, but—
Mitchell
Right.
President Johnson
Well, you did. Well, I had a question whether I ought to wait a week on it. And I talked to Roy [Wilkins], and Roy thought that would probably be better, just let it die down and cool off. [note 7] See Conversation WH6702-03-11542. And then maybe send a letter up to the Speaker [of the House] [John W. McCormack] [D–Massachusetts] making the same recommendations, but maybe take out a lot—a little of the emotional stuff I had in it. [note 8] John W. McCormack was a U.S. representative [D–Massachusetts] from January 1928 to January 1971, and Speaker of the House from January 1961 to January 1971. And he said he thought I ought to talk to you, that he trusted your judgment, we both kind of agreed, more than anybody else’s. But I tried to get you at about midnight and I didn’t. So, I finally just thought it’d be—might be misunderstood. They might say, “Well, Johnson didn’t lay it on the line. He’s wobbling, or he’s doubtful, or something.” These people get so sensitive. [Mitchell acknowledges.] They’ve been persecuted a long time. [Sighs.] Some of our friends have been persecuted 2,000 years, you know, and they think that . . . they just don’t trust anybody. So, I decided we better just go on with it and hit the cold water. It’s going to hurt us. It’s going to hurt me with the press. The leading ones are mad as hell. And they say, “Why does a Negro columnist get a Negro lawyer?” And they put out stuff here before the President even signs it or before it ever goes to the Congress. And it’s very unfair, and they’re discriminated against. And they just raise hell about discrimination against them.
Mitchell
Uh-huh.
President Johnson
And there’s about eight or ten of them doing it all day yesterday, and CBS and NBC, and New York Times and Washington Post, and folks we really need on our side.
Mitchell
Yes.
President Johnson
But I concluded . . . my staff felt we ought to go on with it, Harry [C. McPherson Jr.] and [Joseph A.] Joe Califano [Jr.]. [note 9] Harry C. McPherson Jr. was U.S. assistant secretary of state for educational and cultural affairs from August 1964 to August 1965; special assistant and counsel to the president from 1965 to 1966; and special counsel and speechwriter to the president from 1966 to 1969. Joseph A. “Joe” Califano Jr. was special assistant to the president from July 1965 to January 1969. And Roy and I kind of felt the other way, but we might not see the forest for the trees. And I finally, after I came back from this party for the Majesty of Ethiopia [Haile Selassie I], that I just decided we’d better go on with it. [note 10] Haile Selassie I was emperor of Ethiopia from April 1930 to September 1974, and chair of the Organization of African Unity from May 1963 to July 1964 and November 1966 to September 1967. So, I’m going to brief them on it today and send it up sometime during the day, unless I change my mind. Have you got any thoughts?
Mitchell
Yes, sir. Mr. President. I agree with you in your decision to go ahead. I think that if we delay, it’s entirely possible that it would get worse rather than better. And—
President Johnson
That’s what Louis [E.] Martin [Jr.] thought. [note 11] Louis E. Martin Jr. was a journalist and former editor of the Chicago Defender; a key African American adviser to Presidents Kennedy and Johnson; and deputy chair of the Democratic National Committee since 1960.
Mitchell
Oh, he did?
President Johnson
Yeah, he thought that we ought to go ahead. [Unclear comment by Mitchell.] He thought it would probably just stir it up, and they’d all start raising hell. “What are you backing down on?”
Mitchell
Well, that’s right. You see, what we have to realize in this, Mr. President, in this field you can never keep, even the people who are most concerned, entirely in harmony on it. Because the press is always after them to say something derogatory. I don’t go into a city in this country, but that the first question that’s asked of me by the newspapers is, “Well, now, are you unhappy about this or that?” And I always come back fighting saying that “we’ve made progress, the President’s given us leadership, and this is what we want.” And I might say—this is the reason I was suggesting this—it would be good if you made a little television statement because you go over the heads of these people who try to distort your program. And you get directly to the people, telling them the fine things you’re trying to do. So, I’m a hundred percent in agreement going ahead.
President Johnson
OK, well, for God’s sakes, get your outfit. Clarence, you’re about the only one who works. We haven’t got much horsepower in our meeting there. And Whitney [M.] Young [Jr.]‘s good in these cities and he’s out working on it, but we got to get down here at the grassroots. [note 12] Whitney M. Young Jr. was executive director of the National Urban League from 1961 to 1971.Some of these folks at [Mitchell acknowledges], you know, lobbies up there on the Hill. And we got to bring them in from other places if we’re to have any chance. And so I just hope you’ll give a good deal of attention to this. Roy said last night, we agreed that you’re about the best we got, so we’re going to overwork you if we get anywhere this year.
Mitchell
Well, Mr. President, it’s a pleasure to serve in your forces on this thing because I know that we’re doing something that the country is going to benefit from so greatly. And we’re having a meeting of our lobbying groups this afternoon.
President Johnson
Now, listen. Another thing I think you ought to know—I don’t want to say anything—I cussed him out, Harry, about not having [Joseph L.] Joe Rauh [Jr.] there the other day. [note 13] Johnson was referring to the civil rights meeting in the Cabinet Room on 13 February 1967. Joseph L. “Joe” Rauh Jr. was a labor attorney; founder of Americans for Democratic Action; and a civil rights advocate. And he had him and this Jewish fellow. What’s his name, [David A. “Dave”] Brody? [note 14] David A. Brody was a prominent lobbyist for the Anti-Defamation League of B’Nai B’rith.
Mitchell
Yes, Dave Brody.
President Johnson
He had him coming in extry. I’m going to give Joe a special letter on what he’s done on [Washington, D.C.] Home Rule, and expressing regret he resigned locally of the Democratic state outfit—the Democratic organization.
Mitchell
Right.
President Johnson
He wanted me to compliment him, and so I’ve got a strong letter. But just between us, they wanted you from the Leadership Conference. And they just felt that we had to have somebody from the Civil Rights Commission like [Theodore M.] Hesburgh, and we had to have the Archbishop [Patrick A. O’Boyle]. [note 15] Father Theodore M. Hesburgh was president of the University of Notre Dame from 1952 to 1987, and an original appointee to the U.S. Civil Rights Commission from 1957 to 1972. Patrick A. O’Boyle was the Roman Catholic archbishop of Washington from November 1947 to March 1973. We wanted to spread out a little bit. And Harry and Cliff and Louis Martin were afraid we’d just have too many white faces there and just look like we’d taken over the movement. And so they’ve tried to get . . . you know, we couldn’t get [Martin Luther] King [Jr.], and we finally had to get [Walter] Fauntroy at the last minute so we could have somebody that—we wanted it to be representative. [note 16] Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was a leader in the civil rights movement; pastor of the Dexter Avenue Baptist Church in Montgomery, Alabama, from 1954 to 1960; organizer of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC) in 1957; co-pastor (with his father) of the Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta, Georgia, from 1960 until his assassination on 4 April 1968; and recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize in 1964. Reverend Walter E. Fauntroy was a civil rights activist; pastor of New Bethel Baptist Church; director of the Washington Bureau of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC); vice chair of the White House Council on Civil Rights in 1966; vice chair of the Washington, D.C., City Council in 1967; and delegate to the U.S. House of Representatives from March 1971 to January 1991. Johnson made scathing comments about Fauntroy after the King assassination when Fauntroy took Robert Kennedy on a tour of D.C. See President Johnson and Joseph Califano, 27 April 1968, Conversation WH6804-03-12938-12939. Roy said it was quite representative, but—
Mitchell
I thought so.
President Johnson
But we had you representing the Leadership Conference. We had to have somebody from Labor.
Mitchell
Yes.
President Johnson
But we didn’t have . . . it had to be [Andrew J.] Biemiller, you see? [note 17] Andrew J. Biemiller was a U.S. representative [D–Wisconsin] from January 1945 to January 1947 and January 1949 to January 1951; a lobbyist for the American Federation of Labor (AFL) from 1953 to 1956; and director of the department of legislation of the AFL-CIO from 1956 to 1978. And then we had to have Archbishop O’Boyle. [laughing] And then we had to have Hesburgh from Civil Rights. And I had to have [Stephen] Shulman, who’s . . . We could have had one of the Negro members, but Shulman’s pretty good and he’s chairman. [note 18] Steven N. Shulman was assistant U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia from May 1960 to February 1961; executive assistant to Secretary of Labor Arthur J. Goldberg in 1961; vice chair of the President’s Committee on Equal Employment Opportunity in 1961; U.S. deputy assistant secretary of defense for civilian personnel and industrial relations from 1962 to 1964, and for civil rights from 1964 to 1965; general counsel of the Air Force from 1965 to 1966; chair of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission from September 1966 to July 1967; and defense lawyer for Egil Krogh, head of the Special Investigation Unit in the Nixon White House. And he would have been insulted if I hadn’t had him as chairman, you see? And we had Roger [Wilkins], all right. [note 19] Roger Wilkins was U.S. assistant attorney general from 1966 to 1969; became director of the Community Relations Service (CRS) in 1966; and worked as a journalist for the Washington Post from 1973 to 1974, earning a Pulitzer Prize. Wilkins was the nephew of NAACP president Roy O. Wilkins. But our men, good or bad—I didn’t make it, didn’t know it—I called them and asked them why the hell they didn’t have it. And they said, well, they had you instead of—for the Leadership Conference—and they just didn’t want to load it with all whites.
Mitchell
Well, I tell you, Mr. President, I think there’s—we’ve got to forget about whether it looks like it was loaded with all white or all Negro. And I think the main thing is just have the people in there who really work. Joe works, you know? He’s day and night on these things.
President Johnson
Well, we did. We had him in the next day. But we didn’t have him that day. And they just tried to have one who kind of pulled them together. And maybe Cliff and Louis didn’t do it right. I don’t know. But anyway, that’s what they did.
Mitchell
Oh, well. I tell you, I don’t have any criticism of anybody. It’s like I said in the meeting, I think that we did what we could with the forces that we had. Now, I think it was a miracle that we got that bill through the House last year. And I don’t like saying things about Senator [Everett M.] Dirksen [R–Illinois] to you, because he’s helpful to you on other things, but— [note 20] Everett M. Dirksen was a U.S. senator [R–Illinois] from January 1951 until his death in September 1969, and Senate Minority Leader from January 1959 to September 1969.
President Johnson
No, no.
Mitchell
—but the point is he was really a stumbling block.
President Johnson
Oh, no question. He told me he just blocked it.
Mitchell
Yes.
President Johnson
And what he told me was that they made him do it. He just frankly said that. He said that King went out to Chicago and got all of his people worked up, and they started flooding the mail to him. So then he went to Waukegan [Illinois], and he said, “Now, that’s where my real contributors live.” [Laughs.]
Mitchell
Yeah, I think that was a mistake to go out there. [note 21] In August 1966, Dr. King had planned two large marches in Waukegan and in Cicero. Waukegan was a small city north of Chicago along Lake Michigan that experienced several days of civil disorders involving American Nazi leader Lincoln Rockwell. Cicero, a white ethnic enclave, had the reputation as one of most hostile cities in Illinois toward African Americans. An agreement reached with Mayor Richard Daley and others on some housing issues led to the cancellation of these marches. Violence and white hostility in several other marches, however, had sent a clear message that white Illinoisans were ready to resist attempts at housing desegregation. “Whites in Chicago Score Racial Pact,” New York Times, 30 August 1966.
President Johnson
And then he said, they went to some other place, Cicero I guess it was. And, he said, “Every minority group out there just came up in arms.” And I said, “Well, can’t we do something to modify this thing and get your support?” He said, well, he’d see, he’d try. And he came back about the third time. I didn’t tell anybody, but I had him down here with [Nicholas] Nick Katzenbach three times. [note 22] Nicholas “Nick” Katzenbach was U.S. assistant attorney general from 1961 to 1962; U.S. deputy attorney general from April 1962 to January 1965; acting U.S. attorney general from September 1964 to January 1965; U.S. attorney general from February 1965 to October 1966; and U.S. under secretary of state from October 1966 to January 1969. The last time he told me, just said, “I can’t do it.” And I said, “Well, can you do it next year?” “Well,” he said, “I’ll have to look at it then.” But I see now that on this consular treaty, he’s doing the same thing. He’s not any friend of mine. I mean, he’s always against us where he depends against us. On war things he tries to be reasonable about it, but I’ve had hell with him all this year on the consular agreement. I’m trying to get it in. And he’s a very able fellow, but he killed our labor bill and he killed this by himself with his own little hatchet. I’d rather—
Mitchell
Oh, it’s [unclear] like that. That’s why I don’t want to see the blame shifted to anybody else.
President Johnson
I think we might get [Charles] Percy [R–Illinois] and [Edward W.] Brooke [III] [R–Massachusetts] now. [note 23] Charles H. Percy was a U.S. senator [R–Illinois] from January 1967 to January 1985. Edward W. Brooke III was a U.S. senator [R–Massachusetts] from January 1967 to January 1979. Brooke is a pretty reasonable fellow.
Mitchell
He promised me he’ll support it.
President Johnson
I didn’t call his name, but he came in, talked to me—he was supposed to be there 20 minutes, and I just kept him over an hour.
Mitchell
Wonderful.
President Johnson
And he asked me, in my judgment, about his making—

Recording cuts off before conversation ends.

Copyright 2014 by the Rector and Visitors of the University of Virginia. Reproduced by permission. Original source: “Lyndon B. Johnson and Clarence M. Mitchell Jr. on 15 February 1967,” Conversation WH6702-04-11546, Presidential Recordings Digital Edition [Lyndon B. Johnson and Civil Rights, Volume 2, ed. Kent B. Germany] (Charlottesville: University of Virginia Press, 2014–). URL: http://prde.upress.virginia.edu/conversations/4006269